Panoramic Sunroof Leaking?

[Exaybachay]

Another Alltrack owner with leaking sunroof experience. Thought i'd comment here to bolster the discussion.

Trip #1 to the dealer after finding water leaking into the rear lift door and coming out when it was opened. They traced it to the sunroof and replaced the frame and headliner. I had to go back to the dealer after I noticed some small snaps and other details weren't put back correctly.

Trip #2 to the dealer after finding water stains on the replaced headliner. This is when I was told that it was due to the drain plug issue others have talked about. The plugs were ground down to prevent clogging. A second headliner was installed as well as the entire carpet (They found water at the driver and passenger side floors. I had to return this time as well after areas of the headliner were not finished properly.

Honestly, I'm kind of hoping for the issue to happen again so I can pursue the lemon law in MA. I was driving on the highway today at 70mph and the car's alarm system went off. I tried to figure out what was happening, if I pressed some weird distress button or something, merged to the right and pulled over. By then it went off as if nothing had happened. I'm worried that the car's electrical system may have been affected by the water intrusion. Any thoughts there?

 

[ns122]

2018 VW Alltrack (Canadian) - once it started raining in Nova Scotia this fall after a dry summer, we first noticed damp metal under the underlay carpet in the wheel well, followed by significant headliner staining from the rear seat back to the hatch. Then after any significant rain, water appeared as drops on the trim at the base of each side rear window, water on the fabric sides in the rear hatch area, and up to 2" (yes two inches) of water around the spare tire. Initial dealer check to determine the damage, hopefully the cause and to order parts. "Spider trap" drain plugs removed by the dealer and reportedly sent to VW Canada by their request. Return visit to further remedy the leak and replace the headliner, etc. found pinched drain lines. Took the dealer 1 1/2 days to do the repairs and dry it out. No further leaks so far after a month or so. Dealer was very good about the whole affair, offered a rental car for the overnight inconvenience. Other than the time and annoyance of having a brand new, but wet car, all is well. Should the leaks reappear, we will push very hard for lemon law like solution or other suitable solution. Nova Scotia has such legislation proposed, but it will take a couple years to be implemented. Don't like having a car that was once very wet. Love the Alltrack & the pano roof.

For info put 215/55/17 Blizzaks (WS80) on 2015 Golf alloy rims in place of the stock 18" for the winter. They look good. Costco was the best price ($175 plus install) plus a $70 cash card added in.

 

[Arm&Hammer]

I have the same situation as you.
If I drive at highway speeds in the rain the next day a new stain appears. The electronics are affected my speakers go out, my windows don't function properly and sometimes can't lock the doors. If the car is sitting in the rain it does not seem to stain the headliner but I do get excessive windshield fogging when starting to drive.
Prior two times they claimed it was outside influence due to the drains being clogged and they wanted to charge me on a brand new car (sure??), they blew out the drain tubes and it happened again twice and after several weeks it leaked again. I too will start the lemon law process. This is ridiculous how they are doing the minimum to get rid of the customer and hoping we don't come back. In the meantime the electronic problems in the car are getting worse and the headliner is getting more stained. I've been waiting 2 weeks so far to get a loaner for the next repair.

From reading all the posts I think this Pano leak is a combination of several things and difficult to repair:
1. The drain tubes get clogged if not routed properly or the design of the drains are not adequate
2. There seems to be defective spider traps/ flaps at the end of the drain tubes which may or may not be causing the clog
3. The main seal around the pano roof is not sealed properly so when there is excess water or the drains don't relieve the water from the sunroof channels water get into the headliner

or a combination of all of the above...I guess we'll see someday.

 

[Huntero1975]

Well we got out 2018 Alltrack back from the dealer for the second time on Friday 11,
The car has about 5200 miles on it.
I did contact Vw of America when it went in the shop for the second time.
I am really hopping this repair is it.
The first repair the told us they replaced the track system, and this one they said the tray was not installed right.
No headliner replaced yet as they want to make sure all the leaks have stopped before replacing it.
Of coarse it was sunny all weekend here in the PNW in Jan.
I am sure it will rain soon and we will see how it go's

 

[Huntero1975]

Nope it's not fixed!!!! it rained for the first time today 1/17/19 and it still has leaks, Sound the bell round 3 is about to be underway...Dang tho had hopes it was fixed this time, love our car, to bad it has a leaking the roof!!!

 

[fooall]

Hello. New to group and forum.

Our 2017 Alltrack SEL is parked outside in wet PNW; I noticed at about the 6 month mark that its interior glass was increasingly obscured by water condensation. Took it to dealer for first free service and asked them to find the leak. They say it was sunroof drains plugged. All PS carpets soaked and the spare tire was under water. They cleaned it up, dried it out, repaired rear drain tubes where they passed through floor, and sent me on my way after seven days. I requested a loaner due to the extensive downtime.

I don't see any headliner stains, so not sure how the water routed itself. Thanks to the forum user who suggested registering the problem with the NHTSA. There were several complaints filed there already. Thanks also to the VWVortex site user who posted the applicable VW TSB, identifying manufacturing process defects requiring corrective action.

My dealer was responsive and the work quality seems high, but I suspect they subcontracted the job to a specialist. They didn't let on that it was a known VW issue, and by summarizing the problem as debris in the drains, they were certainly trying to deflect scrutiny from themselves and VW corporate, to minimize their liability. That inference was the only downside of the service experience so far, and it left a bad aftertaste. Won't they ever learn it's not the FU itself, but all the subsequent lies and coverups that leave a permanent stain on one's reputation. It costs a little to confess up front, but this is small potatoes compared to a damaged reputation and extensive legal costs related to culpability.

It's raining again, so I may be back here soon. After what I read here and elsewhere, I feel fortunate my state has a lemon law. If the car gives me any more problems, and VW is uncooperative, I will happily go the legal route. Such a sweet ride. What a shame to have the car potentially damaged by water already. Thanks for the informative thread responses.

 

[VWATSI]

Hello. New to group and forum.

Our 2017 Alltrack SEL is parked outside in wet PNW; I noticed at about the 6 month mark that its interior glass was increasingly obscured by water condensation. Took it to dealer for first free service and asked them to find the leak. They say it was sunroof drains plugged. All PS carpets soaked and the spare tire was under water. They cleaned it up, dried it out, repaired rear drain tubes where they passed through floor, and sent me on my way after seven days. I requested a loaner due to the extensive downtime.

I don't see any headliner stains, so not sure how the water routed itself. Thanks to the forum user who suggested registering the problem with the NHTSA. There were several complaints filed there already. Thanks also to the VWVortex site user who posted the applicable VW TSB, identifying manufacturing process defects requiring corrective action.

My dealer was responsive and the work quality seems high, but I suspect they subcontracted the job to a specialist. They didn't let on that it was a known VW issue, and by summarizing the problem as debris in the drains, they were certainly trying to deflect scrutiny from themselves and VW corporate, to minimize their liability. That inference was the only downside of the service experience so far, and it left a bad aftertaste. Won't they ever learn it's not the FU itself, but all the subsequent lies and coverups that leave a permanent stain on one's reputation. It costs a little to confess up front, but this is small potatoes compared to a damaged reputation and extensive legal costs related to culpability.

It's raining again, so I may be back here soon. After what I read here and elsewhere, I feel fortunate my state has a lemon law. If the car gives me any more problems, and VW is uncooperative, I will happily go the legal route. Such a sweet ride. What a shame to have the car potentially damaged by water already. Thanks for the informative thread responses.

I'm looking to buy a used alltrack and based on what I've gathered on other forums about the leaking roof I'm now inclined to get the S trim.
Is it safe to get a SE/SEL that underwent corrective repairs by VW or get an S trim instead to avoid headaches?
I'd appreciate feedback from folks who had their leaks repaired.
This is what I'm looking at:
https://www.automotiveavenuesnj.com...l-dsg-all-wheel-drive-wagon-3vwh17au0hm521168
https://www.automotiveavenuesnj.com...l-dsg-all-wheel-drive-sedan-3vwh17au6hm511597

TIA

 

[Arm&Hammer]

No, it is not safe to buy any certified used SE/SEL Alltrack. VW has not figured out how to solve the problem with the leaks yet, or they are not saying because it may be a huge expensive problem affecting all vehicles. If you haven't already Googled it , check out
https://vwalltrackpanoleak.com/
It is a website solely dedicated to VW Alltrack owners who have had leaks, there are over 120 individuals who have many issues with pictures. Looking over that website you will quickly see people who have been unsuccessful. Have been to the dealer multiple times and some over 30 days spent at the dealer for repairs and still having leaks.

Bottom line: if I had to do it all over again I would stay away from VW.

Also just noticed your links, the black SEL has a shadow on the rear headliner driver's side, can't tell if it is a stain, improperly installed headliner or it could be nothing but these may be the buybacks VW is trying to get rid of. Some owners have implemented their state lemon laws and have been successful in having VW buyback the cars. With such a high number of vehicles that are leaking and with high # of a defect rate that tells me they will all eventually leak.

 

[VWATSI]

Got it. That'll save me a lot of time and headaches. I rally wanted to get a higher trim.
I also came across post about leaks in S trim. I guess it's unrelated.
BTW VWAlltrackPanoleaks.com isn't working.
Thank you.

 

[Arm&Hammer]

Hello. New to group and forum.

Our 2017 Alltrack SEL is parked outside in wet PNW; I noticed at about the 6 month mark that its interior glass was increasingly obscured by water condensation. Took it to dealer for first free service and asked them to find the leak. They say it was sunroof drains plugged. All PS carpets soaked and the spare tire was under water. They cleaned it up, dried it out, repaired rear drain tubes where they passed through floor, and sent me on my way after seven days. I requested a loaner due to the extensive downtime.

I don't see any headliner stains, so not sure how the water routed itself. Thanks to the forum user who suggested registering the problem with the NHTSA. There were several complaints filed there already. Thanks also to the VWVortex site user who posted the applicable VW TSB, identifying manufacturing process defects requiring corrective action.

My dealer was responsive and the work quality seems high, but I suspect they subcontracted the job to a specialist. They didn't let on that it was a known VW issue, and by summarizing the problem as debris in the drains, they were certainly trying to deflect scrutiny from themselves and VW corporate, to minimize their liability. That inference was the only downside of the service experience so far, and it left a bad aftertaste. Won't they ever learn it's not the FU itself, but all the subsequent lies and coverups that leave a permanent stain on one's reputation. It costs a little to confess up front, but this is small potatoes compared to a damaged reputation and extensive legal costs related to culpability.

It's raining again, so I may be back here soon. After what I read here and elsewhere, I feel fortunate my state has a lemon law. If the car gives me any more problems, and VW is uncooperative, I will happily go the legal route. Such a sweet ride. What a shame to have the car potentially damaged by water already. Thanks for the informative thread responses.

FooAll,
Exactly the same BS and run around they gave me for the past 5 months. Now it is their 3rd attempt and over 31 days in for repair for the leak, they admitted there is a problem and TSB. Will not charge me for the diagnostics and repair, for a car under warranty. Got VW Custumer service involved to help out the dealer to find a solution. When I questioned VW rep if my dealership was capable of repairing my car or should I go to another one? The VW rep told me " they/my dealership has extensive knowledge and have performed leak repairs on many Alltracks" thus admitting that the dealer has been lying to me the whole time.
Well said

 

[Arm&Hammer]

It's still working, sorry I misspelled the website I corrected it above:
https://vwalltrackpanoleak.com/

But only a matter of time until the owner of the website gives up as he was the owner of a 2018 Alltrack SE but just noticed he is no longer. Or VW shuts it down.

 

[VWATSI]

Have a 2017 All Track SEL and Love it. I noticed leaking after a heavy rainstorm and while it was raining I took it to my dealer here in Maine. I have always had outstanding service from them. They immediately took it in. After about a 1/2 hour the an diagnosed the issue as the plug at the end of the gravity drain hose was not opening once there was water pressure in the tube. The service manager recommended to remove these "pressure plug" which I agreed. It has been 6 months now and not a single leak and the car is stored outside during the summer months.

Is the fix holding up for you?

 

[Arm&Hammer]

After months of attempted repairs dealer finally replaced everything with new parts and performed the TSB for pano leaks. They were finished over the weekend. The car sat outside in the dealer lot on Sunday in the rain.
Guess what when I went to pick it up the next morning a big water stain on the brand new headliner. The service rep was dumbfounded and claimed they had their best mechanic with VW's help for the repair, charged VW thousands of dollars and it still leaked. They are a large dealership on the east coast. He also finally admitted it wasn't the "outside influence" clogs after all, and wants me to pick up the car because there is nothing else they can do. I need to deal with VW directly.
I'm kind of relieved that all the runaround, blaming me and excuses from the dealer is over. Now I just have to deal with VW.

For those of you wondering there is a design defect with the Alltrack's Pano sunroof. From my experience the pano sunroof itself is fine it is the entire drainage system and the surrounding attachment system is flawed by design. Even brand new drain tubes and spider traps installed properly is not adequate and can cause leaks. Taking the spider traps/check valves are a temporary fix and may work for areas there is little or no rain, but even that exposes the drain tubes to the environment and cause premature clogging. The sunroof seal to the body is the cause and the main problem. It has to be perfect per Pano leak TSB, if there is any flaw leaks occur. To fix it and get it all this right is impossible in the real world unless VW opens up a dedicated Sunroof repair station at their headquarters in MI to fix it properly by trained technicians. The dealerships are not trained or have the proper tools to handle this and thus all these re-occurring leaks. GOod luck to all and I've initiated my state's lemon law. My back up plan is to sue with the help of a retired AFL-CIO senior attorney who has over 20 years of litigation experience against large corporations. He said he will help/represent me when I told him my story. It struck a nerve with him because he had a defective Passat where he used the lemon law and got his money back.

I also wanted to let everyone know when the dealer had everything taken apart I examined the car. The electronics of my car was going haywire, because of the leaks. The more scary part is that the leaks at the middle of the car may be getting to the side air bags and wires. NOT a good environment for airbags to be exposed like that. So based on what I saw the electronics and air bags will deteriorate over time. What a shame....

 

[Arm&Hammer]

Finally someone is gathering information probably for a class action law-suit against VW for our leaky pano sunroofs. Looks like a law firm in CA and they are protecting consumers under the California Lemon Law. Not yet for the rest of us in the other 49 states. I'm sure with the high number of leaks the rest of the 49 states will sure follow.... Now the story is unfolding quickly just like a soap opera. Lets see what VW corp. does with 49 other states/law firms/states attorneys after them. I knew California was a progressive state which could be good or bad, but when it affects you then you realize why we need consumer regulations. I thought VW would have learned from their $25 billion Diesel engine cheating scandal from just a couple years ago but I guess they haven't. Someone needs to remind them again.

 

[Exaybachay]

Hi All-

I posted previously, but i'll do a quick recap and update. I own a 17' alltrack SE and brought it in a few months ago for the 1st time for a leaking sunroof. We had found water in the rear lift gate. They replaced the sunroof frame and headliner. 2nd time I brought it in for water stains on the new headliner, they took off the sunroof, ground down the drain tubes as per VW technical service bulletin and also said they found water on the floor and replaced the carpet and headliner again. The 3rd time we brought it in for water found in the rear lift gate again and they said it was getting in through the stereo antennae. At this point we called VW corporate and started pursued a buy back. They took 10 days to respond and denied the claim. Now the car is at the dealer for the 4th time for water found in the rear lift gate. We immediately re-opened the buy back claim and just spoke to the dealership today who is saying that water is leaking in between the rear seal of the car.

Needless to say we're really hoping VW makes the right decision here and buys the car back. This is the first new car my wife and I have ever owned because we just had a baby and wanted a reliable car. This has been anything but and although we've dealt with it graciously up to this point we're starting to take our gloves off.

 

[Seneb]

Again...

It leaked again. After a couple weeks of dry weather, and a few days of really warm weather, it started raining last night. This morning I have a wet headliner and water inside the car again.

 

[cebuphilippines]

Don’t buy Alltrack or any Audi/ VW! I regret buying one.. I got my 2017 SE Alltrack December 2017 . First was sunroof / panoroof leaking at the passenger which damage my subwoofer last summer of 2018. Luckily it’s still on warranty and they fixed it. Now May 12 2019 the front passenger side was leaking ! Since it’s Sunday it happened I will take my car tomorrow Monday . It’s still on warranty so they better fix it. “A” pillar is wet and the motor for the panoroof cover is wet . Here’s the pics, I wish I can upload the video but I can’t ...

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[VWFan]

Sorry to see this, I can see your frustration. Hopefully it gets resolved this time.

Don’t buy Alltrack or any Audi/ VW! I regret buying one.. I got my 2017 SE Alltrack December 2017 . First was sunroof / panoroof leaking at the passenger which damage my subwoofer last summer of 2018. Luckily it’s still on warranty and they fixed it. Now May 12 2019 the front passenger side was leaking ! Since it’s Sunday it happened I will take my car tomorrow Monday . It’s still on warranty so they better fix it. A pillar is wet and the motor for the panoroof cover is wet . Here’s the pics, I wish I can upload the video but I can’t ...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[cebuphilippines]

Sorry to see this, I can see your frustration. Hopefully it gets resolved this time.

Hopefully it will be fix. It’s still on warranty though ...


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[AlltrackMike]

Wow that's really bad @cebuphilippines. Make sure they replace the liner too because there's probably mold up there.